Meeting with Moshe Feiglin - Summary and Conclusions | Hal loop
Meeting with Moshe Feiglin - Conclusions Posted: 08/01/2013 Some wind 87 Comments Tags: democracy, liberal democracy, popular democracy, democracy in our community, church and state, homosexuality, watch cleaning Likud, Judaism, Judaism, watch cleaning Orthodox Judaism, Moshe Feiglin
Ten days ago I met with MK Moshe Feiglin future watch cleaning public hearing. Mr. Feiglin himself watch cleaning suggested this possibility in response to the last article on his view, a motion initiated the event, and I gladly responded to the initiative. Purpose of the meeting (held at the "Jerusalem Jewish Leadership) was clarify the positions of the Moshe Feiglin regarding democracy and a Jewish state, and I think that actually clarified some things. discussion was just flowing and my business, and it said some interesting things in my opinion, if not deepened too. those interested, here you can hear the entire recording, and here the file in mp3 download. Below are some key quotes emerging from - dialogue between watch cleaning us. ask to clarify some of which Feiglin's positions.
Persico: The first section Rules' Jewish Leadership talks about the "creation of the Jewish state." Does that mean the monarchy? Feiglin: no. Persico: So How does this regime, which is Jewish and freedom to your liking? [Feiglin speaks of regional elections] Persico: watch cleaning what frame? Prime Minister of Israel controls? Feiglin: Yes. Persico: and has a synagogue? Feiglin: Yes. Persico: That is like today actually. Feiglin: Yes. [...] The existing political system is perfectly legitimate to me.
While a number of people on the right (Eldad) or right - Religious (Yehuda Etzion, Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg and his followers, and many more), and in contrast even to someone watch cleaning who is from his feeding primary and proclaimed the Feiglin, Shabtai Ben Dov, Feiglin is like the king of Israel. Democracy, with some changes we'll watch cleaning get them accepted it. Is that always thought? Maybe, but if so, why would the language section will first movement regulations as it? I moved things to Prof. Moti amber, an expert Jewish messianic fundamentalism (I interviewed him here, and he has a blog). He believes that this new position:
Here resurfacing view 'Jewish Leadership - downplaying the idea of monarchy, a' sufficient unto the day. That is, since Feiglin watch cleaning admits that Judaism monarchical model that fits into the modern era, they reject the preoccupation with another era, when the nation will require a king. Meanwhile satisfied with upgraded democracy, our freedom, as an intermediate step.
Persico: Israel today an Arab, a Muslim, for example, can not marry a Jewish citizen (the State of Israel - he can travel abroad, etc.). This law restricts the freedom of his or her own, right? Are you in favor repeal the law this or enact another law? Feiglin: Basically watch cleaning I do not think the state should marry. perception of my country not exactly understand the connection between the state of marriage and divorce. eyes should not be a problem per Jewish and Arab go to the office to get official confirmation that the state recognize them for technical issues as a married couple., but they will have a problem with the company, not with the state.
Feiglin supports civil marriage, even between Jews and Arabs. Individual liberty, so he repeated, very important to him, and I believe him. There is a clear thinking Libertniani line. He really watch cleaning wants to allow as much freedom to the individual. But how it fits with the overall vision of a Jewish democracy in our community? Here, for example:
Persico: If you favor expel whoever [is not Jewish and] does not recognize the sovereignty of the Jewish people, then that person will not be individual watch cleaning freedom, right? That he would lose his house, his possessions, his status, his job. He lost a lot of things. Feiglin: watch cleaning [...] Who does not recognize watch cleaning sovereignty of our country is actually declared war on us. And war, surprised, watch cleaning as in war. Persico: But in every country, even the U.S. government civilians are not like them. Feiglin not recognize the sovereignty of the United States? Persico: Absolutely. Feiglin: So the full right of the U.S. [...] or put him in custody, I do not want to do, or to open the door and tell him to partake ... drop us Persico: It's not just "deport". Feiglin: You know what, You are right. while I wrote the used in less diplomatic language. Persico: So you delete the word "deport?" watch cleaning It will not be active. Feiglin: Right. I think anyone who does not know the sovereignty of Israel on the land does not belong here, and should be encouraged to seek his future elsewhere. said that diplomatic enough to say now? Persico: Great, I'm glad you clarified it, because I want to note that the difference is that in a democracy the U.S. government, the regime certainly think that person's right to burn the American flag, say U.S. state not to oppose U.S. sovereignty - for example watch cleaning if it is an Indian, to say that the areas are actually his and that the U.S. are occupying and brutal. U.S. not deport him. U.S. think it is right. Mouth you different. Jewish democracy is different here than in America. Feiglin: You may. Jewish democracy may have a different language American democracy. Nevertheless the comparison between the two examples is unfounded. Indians are undermining terrorist groups are not trying to establish a their own, do not blow up buses, etc., etc.. Persico: Yes, but rights are not derived from the action. Feiglin: You're right that the principle that supposedly is similar.
Muslims and Christians are not citizens Feiglin's Jewish democracy. watch cleaning Their human rights will be preserved, but they will not get civil rights. Actually, watch cleaning he elaborates here the concept of "resident stranger" watch cleaning traditional. However Feiglin withdrew its previous intention to expel them by force. It will only encourage them to emigrate. What about the Arabs who are citizens of Israel today?
Persico: watch cleaning those citizens - sorry, watch cleaning not civilians. watch cleaning Those individuals Arabs, Muslims, Christians, stay in the country watch cleaning and would accept Israeli sovereignty. Not resist but to
Meeting with Moshe Feiglin - Conclusions Posted: 08/01/2013 Some wind 87 Comments Tags: democracy, liberal democracy, popular democracy, democracy in our community, church and state, homosexuality, watch cleaning Likud, Judaism, Judaism, watch cleaning Orthodox Judaism, Moshe Feiglin
Ten days ago I met with MK Moshe Feiglin future watch cleaning public hearing. Mr. Feiglin himself watch cleaning suggested this possibility in response to the last article on his view, a motion initiated the event, and I gladly responded to the initiative. Purpose of the meeting (held at the "Jerusalem Jewish Leadership) was clarify the positions of the Moshe Feiglin regarding democracy and a Jewish state, and I think that actually clarified some things. discussion was just flowing and my business, and it said some interesting things in my opinion, if not deepened too. those interested, here you can hear the entire recording, and here the file in mp3 download. Below are some key quotes emerging from - dialogue between watch cleaning us. ask to clarify some of which Feiglin's positions.
Persico: The first section Rules' Jewish Leadership talks about the "creation of the Jewish state." Does that mean the monarchy? Feiglin: no. Persico: So How does this regime, which is Jewish and freedom to your liking? [Feiglin speaks of regional elections] Persico: watch cleaning what frame? Prime Minister of Israel controls? Feiglin: Yes. Persico: and has a synagogue? Feiglin: Yes. Persico: That is like today actually. Feiglin: Yes. [...] The existing political system is perfectly legitimate to me.
While a number of people on the right (Eldad) or right - Religious (Yehuda Etzion, Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg and his followers, and many more), and in contrast even to someone watch cleaning who is from his feeding primary and proclaimed the Feiglin, Shabtai Ben Dov, Feiglin is like the king of Israel. Democracy, with some changes we'll watch cleaning get them accepted it. Is that always thought? Maybe, but if so, why would the language section will first movement regulations as it? I moved things to Prof. Moti amber, an expert Jewish messianic fundamentalism (I interviewed him here, and he has a blog). He believes that this new position:
Here resurfacing view 'Jewish Leadership - downplaying the idea of monarchy, a' sufficient unto the day. That is, since Feiglin watch cleaning admits that Judaism monarchical model that fits into the modern era, they reject the preoccupation with another era, when the nation will require a king. Meanwhile satisfied with upgraded democracy, our freedom, as an intermediate step.
Persico: Israel today an Arab, a Muslim, for example, can not marry a Jewish citizen (the State of Israel - he can travel abroad, etc.). This law restricts the freedom of his or her own, right? Are you in favor repeal the law this or enact another law? Feiglin: Basically watch cleaning I do not think the state should marry. perception of my country not exactly understand the connection between the state of marriage and divorce. eyes should not be a problem per Jewish and Arab go to the office to get official confirmation that the state recognize them for technical issues as a married couple., but they will have a problem with the company, not with the state.
Feiglin supports civil marriage, even between Jews and Arabs. Individual liberty, so he repeated, very important to him, and I believe him. There is a clear thinking Libertniani line. He really watch cleaning wants to allow as much freedom to the individual. But how it fits with the overall vision of a Jewish democracy in our community? Here, for example:
Persico: If you favor expel whoever [is not Jewish and] does not recognize the sovereignty of the Jewish people, then that person will not be individual watch cleaning freedom, right? That he would lose his house, his possessions, his status, his job. He lost a lot of things. Feiglin: watch cleaning [...] Who does not recognize watch cleaning sovereignty of our country is actually declared war on us. And war, surprised, watch cleaning as in war. Persico: But in every country, even the U.S. government civilians are not like them. Feiglin not recognize the sovereignty of the United States? Persico: Absolutely. Feiglin: So the full right of the U.S. [...] or put him in custody, I do not want to do, or to open the door and tell him to partake ... drop us Persico: It's not just "deport". Feiglin: You know what, You are right. while I wrote the used in less diplomatic language. Persico: So you delete the word "deport?" watch cleaning It will not be active. Feiglin: Right. I think anyone who does not know the sovereignty of Israel on the land does not belong here, and should be encouraged to seek his future elsewhere. said that diplomatic enough to say now? Persico: Great, I'm glad you clarified it, because I want to note that the difference is that in a democracy the U.S. government, the regime certainly think that person's right to burn the American flag, say U.S. state not to oppose U.S. sovereignty - for example watch cleaning if it is an Indian, to say that the areas are actually his and that the U.S. are occupying and brutal. U.S. not deport him. U.S. think it is right. Mouth you different. Jewish democracy is different here than in America. Feiglin: You may. Jewish democracy may have a different language American democracy. Nevertheless the comparison between the two examples is unfounded. Indians are undermining terrorist groups are not trying to establish a their own, do not blow up buses, etc., etc.. Persico: Yes, but rights are not derived from the action. Feiglin: You're right that the principle that supposedly is similar.
Muslims and Christians are not citizens Feiglin's Jewish democracy. watch cleaning Their human rights will be preserved, but they will not get civil rights. Actually, watch cleaning he elaborates here the concept of "resident stranger" watch cleaning traditional. However Feiglin withdrew its previous intention to expel them by force. It will only encourage them to emigrate. What about the Arabs who are citizens of Israel today?
Persico: watch cleaning those citizens - sorry, watch cleaning not civilians. watch cleaning Those individuals Arabs, Muslims, Christians, stay in the country watch cleaning and would accept Israeli sovereignty. Not resist but to
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